Note: certain names have been changed to protect the identities of our interviewees.
Appendix A: Engineering and Art Student Panel Transcript
Conducted by Olivia Guarna on October 30, 2018
Olivia: Okay, so just to give a little background on the project, our group was assigned to do an art project for Acopian, which our professor, Cohen wants us to focus on this exterior wall that’s facing Markle. And the idea is to make a more inclusive, inviting environment for this building, which a lot of people feel is necessary. But I want to get your thoughts on that more. But to start, can everyone say your name, major, and class year.
Student 3: I am [Student 3], I am a junior, and I’m a mechanical engineering and art double.
Student 1: I’m [Student 1] and I am exactly the same as that: junior, mechanical engineering and art double major.
Student 2: I’m [Student 2], I’m a senior, and I’m a mechanical engineering and art double major.
Olivia: Okay so you’re all Mech Es?
All: Yeah.
Olivia: Okay, um, alright cool.
Student 2: Apparently nobody else branches out.
Olivia: Yeah I guess. I know I thought it would be that most of the doubles would be Civ E and Art but–because then it’s like architecture.
Student 3: Have you talked to Simone?
Olivia: Is she engineering?
Student 3: Mm hmm. She’s ECE.
Olivia: Oh I did not know that. Oh okay I might reach out to her. Thank you for that. Okay so first question: what are your impressions of Lafayette’s engineering culture and is there anything you would like to see change?
Student 2: I feel like a lot of engineers kind of have a stick up their ass. Like the whole like “oh we’re engineers and we do the hardest work.”
Student 3: There’s definitely a superiority thing. But I would say within engineering it’s like very collaborative and very inclusive. But yeah they definitely like see themselves as separate from the rest of the campus.
Student 2: I feel like anyone who’s a double major like has a bit more understanding of it but there aren’t very many engineers who are double majors.
Student 1: Yeah, this is us. Hello. I also feel like in art there’s a lot more forced hands on experience. So in engineering you can get that hands on experience by yourself if you like talk to professors and you’re like, “hey I want to do research” or like go to the ASB meetings but it’s not like automatic; you have to seek it out. Versus art classes, like, you have to take materials and methods; you have to take a drawing class or something. Like there’s ME 210 but that’s it; it doesn’t go anywhere from there. There’s not as much forced hands on experience.
Olivia: That makes sense. Um, what do you guys think about–not necessarily work load but culture around completing your work and study habits of engineers?
Student 2: I feel like the first couple of years it’s a lot of like “oh I’m going to suffer on my own” and “oh no I’ll never figure it out.” Somewhere during junior year you hit the point of like, if I don’t work with other people I’m not going to get anywhere and then you start to actually make friends in your major and do all the homework with each other.
Student 1: Yeah, I feel like engineering’s got a good collaboration thing going on. And art could be better about that. I guess I feel like it’s a lot of individual but I guess that’s good.
Olivia: No honestly I think so too because I feel like that major, a lot of people think it would be collaborative but it really it’s not at all.
Student 3: Yeah, like I’m finding you have the opportunity to learn from your classmates when you go to actually present your work and at the end of the projects but there isn’t so much gaining ideas from each other along the way nor do people get together to work on their art projects in the studio or anything like that.
Olivia: Yeah, for sure. Okay, um, what do you look for in a learning or study space.
Student 3: I like blackboards and whiteboards personally. I like to write big and having–so being in a classroom where I can like spread out and take up as much room as I want is preferable for me.
Student 1: I’m a fan of super quiet. Maybe a window or two. That’s about it.
Student 2: I don’t know. I do most of my work in my common room in my dorm. So the ability to focus depends on like is it a Friday night and everyone’s hanging out and playing video games? Or is it, you know, like two in the morning on a Wednesday and no one else is awake? Actually no, there are a lot of us awake.
Olivia: Do you still live in Ramer?
Student 2: Yeah.
Olivia: Okay. What about you, do you do most of your work in this building?
Student 1: I actually run away from this building because it’s very scary.
Student 2: Yeah, I don’t like working in here.
Student 1: The environment–there’s like people like bleary eyed and staying up late with their coffee and redbull and ahhh. So I run away to the nice library where there’s nobody.
Student 3: I really like working in here. Probably because of like the blackboard thing mostly um but I feel like the library is overcrowded a lot of times, especially if it’s between the hours of 8 and 10pm. Everybody’s in the library doing work and I can’t–like I like my room to be my room and I don’t really like to use the common room in my dorm or anything so I don’t know for me, coming to this building is like this is where I do academics so I just kind of keep it all in the same place.
Olivia: Do you usually study by yourself or with other people?
Student 3: Always in groups. Almost always in groups.
Olivia: Okay, what do you think makes certain buildings on campus feel more inviting or inclusive than others?
Student 2: I mean part of it is just like, how old is the building? Cause like, I don’t know, some of the super old buildings–like I would never go do work in Kunkle, just cause it kind of scares me because it’s probably haunted. Yeah, so I don’t know if that’s a huge factor but it’s there a little bit. I like that the basement that they just did here is like it’s nice but also it’s really loud for some reason. I think it’s cause they don’t have a real ceiling. They just have all the pipes and vents and shit so you just hear it. It’s really nice. It’s really nice to have a group class in there and then you can’t hear each other.
Student 3: I guess yeah like appearance wise, being in a newer building is one thing but along with that is like, when they have a lot of windows. Like the library, yeah I don’t know that’s a really nice, inviting thing. Same with–like I think about how you said Kunkle–like yeah no part of me wants to step foot in Kunkle. But like, buildings like New Oeschle on campus, which I also have no purpose in going to New Oeschle, but I’d be way more likely to go do work in there versus Kunkle just cause it looks nicer, it looks open and not so restricting.
Student 1: Yeah, I totally agree. Just windows instead of fluorescent lights. And also, even if you can’t do windows like if you’re underground or something, even just plants. I think it’s just that you can see the nature, you don’t feel like you’re stuck in some building.
Student 2: The only thing about windows though is I don’t like feeling like it’s a fishbowl. Not a fan. Like our lab, Rachel’s lab, where there’s–
Student 1: Well that’s not really a window. It’s gotta be a window to outside.
Olivia: Okay, um, what is your biggest complaint about Acopian as a building or study space right now? If you have any.
Student 1: I’m going to say something very cliche. But more windows. I really don’t like the bottom floors. At least floor two there’s tiny little windows at the top of the thing and you’re like, “oh I can maybe see someone’s feet” but that’s about it.
Student 2: I actually do on occasion like to feel like I’m in a pit. I do, it’s a common thing.
Olivia: Haha, not something I’ve heard a lot but it’s legit.
Student 2: Yeah once in a while it’s just like a small space where I will sit here and I will do my work and I will not leave my tiny, comfy pit.
Olivia: Okay, that actually does make sense.
Student 2: Like the computer labs are occasionally just really gross. Like the graphics lab, not a clean area. And like I know that’s probably really really hard to, I don’t know, mop under all the computers and stuff but that floor is disgusting.
Olivia: Um, so I want to move now towards the art installation specifically. Before we get into any design specifics, I’m wondering if are any ideas or elements of any type of project that you’d really like to see incorporated for this particular site. Like types of installations. One thing we’ve been thinking a lot about is, should there be a technical aspect because this is an engineering building? So, does the art need to really reflect an interdisciplinary–should it be very engineer-y, should it be–
Student 1: I like things that move. I think that might be cool. But I don’t know why, just because if you’re bored and you’re looking out the window and you don’t want to work and you’re looking out the window you have something to enjoy.
Student 2: Did you say this was going to be on–
Olivia: It’s going to be on the exterior wall over here. I can show you a picture of the wall.
Student 2: Okay, cool. Cause honestly a big colorful mural would be good. Colors, very good.
Olivia: This is the exterior building. It faces Markle.
Student 3: Are you thinking structurally to change anything about the building or just some kind of sculptural/mural type thing.
Olivia: Something sculptural/mural. I think we probably don’t have the resources to change anything structural. One thing I’m really interested in, though that you said, is that when you’re inside looking out–so is that something that you guys think would be an important element of this project?
Student 1: That would be really cool.
Olivia: Being able to experience something from the inside?
Student 1: Yeah, if you could see from the windows from the inside from the classrooms, like a little snowman or something, that’d be cool.
Student 2: Yeah, even if you just put something on the windowsill or something like that.
Student 3: Yeah, just as a reminder that Acopian is not just a pit for engineers. It is but we can also interact with the outside world too.
Student 2: It’s a pretty pit.
Olivia: Okay, you said murals. Do you have–I don’t want to put pressure on you, but are there any themes or images that you think would work well for this type of mural? I know you said colors. Are there any images?
Student 2: I don’t know, gears. That’s the most engineering thing.
Student 1: Honestly, I was thinking gears too.
Student 2: Honestly, gears are really cool.
Student 3: As mechanicals we’re–
Olivia: You guys are such Mech E’s–
Student 3: Well what if you did something that was related to each discipline too? Like gears because we’re all mechanicals but you know a light bulb or–
Student 1: Or four gears, one with each department written on them. But Mech E’s the best one so we get gears.
Olivia: Okay so now I’m going to–so our group has been toying with different design ideas and I wanted to get your thoughts first but we have sort of an idea and I was wondering–so I’m just going to explain it and get some feedback on it. So we were also thinking of going possibly the mural route because–even though it seems pretty obvious–it is very colorful and really noticeable so we thought it might have a big effect. So, one of our group members had this idea to do a cutaway mural. So basically you paint on the side of the building and then it looks like you’re looking into the interior and seeing different things going–basically different classrooms but rather than–
Student 3: So it’d be like a perspective or something?
Olivia: Yes. And rather than painting classrooms that you actually would find in here, incorporating a lot of different types of things. One idea he had was having a room with a lot of plants and greenery, which is sort of what you said. I think he also said a room with people doing yoga, a room with people playing with robots. So it would be engineer-y and not engineer-y. Do you guys have thoughts on that idea?
Student 2: One thing you could do is ask professors about their research. See what they’re doing research in and what some of the applications are. So, I mean, I don’t know. You definitely have Professor Nesbit’s doing stuff with bio mechanics, so you’d have something with that. Rachel is doing fiber deposits, so you’ve got plants and then something made out of plants.
Student 1: I know there’s a bunch of professors working on a fish project.
Student 2: Oh yeah, there sure are the fish. That’s Brown and–
Student 1: Utter. And then also maybe Sabatino sometimes? I don’t know. It’s a big project; everyone’s excited about it.
Olivia: Okay, that’s cool.
Student 2: There’s Professor Mante and his concrete. He loves concrete so much.
Student 1: He loves it.
Olivia: Are there any ways that we might incorporate moving parts, sculptural elements, or other non-mural elements into that kind of design?
Student 2: I feel like wind powered stuff is–I don’t know, feasible.
Student 3: If you had a mini wind turbine that actually blew in the wind.
Student 2: Ooh that would be cool, like little pinwheel dudes. Wind chimes.
Student 3: Yeah.
Olivia: Do you think wind chimes would be annoying though?
Student 2: I don’t know, that’s a great question.
Student 1: Probably, yeah.
Olivia: Okay so maybe no sound but moving parts.
Student 1: And integrated into the painting, like if someone’s twirling a rope or something. That’s a really bad example.
Olivia: No, I get what you’re saying though.
Student 2: Or but like if you had a kid holding a pinwheel and you actually had a pinwheel sticking out that’s kind of cool.
Student 1: Or if you had a robot.
Student 2: Yeah, a little helicopter and you have a little blade on the top that actually spins.
Olivia: Alright, I like these ideas.
Student 1: Or an entire functioning classroom made out of wind stuff. That would be cool.
Student 2: You could also get stuff from senior projects. So like, some race car stuff, bridge design, I don’t know what else do we do?
Student 1: Well, there seems to be a wind turbine project every year.
Olivia: Oh yeah? Okay.
Student 2: The Civ E’s always have their bridge. The Mech E’s and the ECE’s always have a car.
Student 3: What do the Chem E’s do?
Student 1: They make oil. I think.
Student 3: Polymers and stuff? Polymers aren’t real exciting to put on a mural.
Olivia: Okay, let’s see what else. Would you like to see an art project–maybe this or maybe something else–but whatever’s on the exterior have an element that could be incorporated into the interior space of the building? Like, is art inside the building something you would be interested in?
All: Yeah.
Student 1: As long as it’s not annoying.
Olivia: What would you think would be annoying?
Student 1: Probably noise inside a classroom or–
Student 3: Even just moving parts indoors might be unnecessary.
Student 1: Like if a professor’s trying to teach and there’s a little pretzel spinning sideways.
Olivia: Okay so no distractions. What would be good though? Colors?
Student 3: Probably nature. Even if it’s paintings of plants and trees. Cause I know that’s something we said made a space more inviting and less restricting.
Student 2: I don’t know how feasible this would be but there’s a high school back home that ceiling tiles, they paint all of them. I think it’s an english class that did it because it was names of all the books that they read and they paint all the book covers on them. So I don’t know exactly how that would translate to engineering but that’s just kind of fun if your ceiling tiles are colorful.
Student 1: In my dorm freshman year, someone wrote in glow in the dark paint on the ceiling tiles but–you could do that on the ceiling tiles but you could also do that on the outside so you could have two different murals: one at night, one in the day. And it charges up and then you turn off the lights and it–
Olivia: Alright talk me through that one more time. So you have regular paint mural for day–
Student 1: And then I think there’s neon paints out there that you can get and just paint on the wall and maybe at night the engineers turn into people eating, gears, I don’t know.
Olivia: Okay, and then did you say something about charging up?
Student 1: Oh, no no no–
Olivia: It’s like glow in the dark paint?
Student 1: Yeah. So it just needs sunlight but that happens in the day.
Olivia: Okay, I really like that idea. One issue we’ve been working on for a mural for this wall is that, as you saw, there’s equal amounts of brick and window. And it’s not like groups of windows and groups of open space, it’s really interrupted space. So do you think a mural would work on that space?
Student 2: I feel like it would be best if it isn’t one solid image but instead it’s a whole bunch of little things that go together but aren’t–like you can’t just put a painting on it. You can be like, here’s things that are in between all of the windows. And have stuff that sort of connects everything.
Student 1: Just strategically, you know, design elements. Like a thing that flows through and keeps flowing through or maybe integrate the windows into some parts of the piece and maybe ignore them in others. But I feel like, whatever you decide, you just look at the piece and you look at the windows and see how you can be clever about using them. Integrate them; pay attention to them, don’t ignore them. Maybe even be clever with them. Actually, clever would be really cool. I don’t know, I can’t think of an example but there’s lots of people who have used the frame of the painting weirdly or paint a fake frame and then have like tentacles coming out.
Olivia: So one thing we were thinking of, which probably I think we might be leaning away from was looking into technology–like you know how buses sometimes have full covering advertisements on the outside of the windows but when you’re inside you can see out of them?
Student 1: Oh, yeah.
Olivia: So, that’s one option we might look into but I don’t know how feasible that would be. But how would you feel–if we weren’t doing that–obviously we don’t want to block any light coming in because this building could already use more light but having limited painting directly onto the glass. What do you think about that? Or do you think anything is taking away too much from the windows?
Student 1: Yeah.
Student 3: Yeah, I feel like if you’re going to do that in some places, I just feel like it would look weird to have some windows painted over and some not. So it seems like kind of an all or nothing thing. Like either you work around them and incorporate them into the design or you pretend they’re not there and paint right through them. i don’t know.
Student 2: I feel like it would just not look quite right because you have a lot of texture stuff. Cause there’s the concrete frame around the window and the window goes in a whole lot and then you just have weird stuff going on.
Student 1: Also, on the bus window thing, I think you probably should do that because you’re going to easily be able to see the difference between a painted thing and that. That’s going to look–
Olivia: That’s what I was thinking. It’s like a totally different quality. Also, even though you can see out, the windows are still really tinted. That’s why I was thinking it’s probably not a good option. But, yes, that’s a really good point. Alright, my last question is, who would you like to see completing this art installation? Whatever it is. I mean, where do we look to hire artists, should they be hired artists, should they be students? What are your thoughts on that issue?
Student 3: Hired artists would be interesting but also if there’s a way that part of it could incorporate the students in some way, like not like making them do the really really detailed and technical parts of the drawing but–for example, when I was a kid we painted a mural in my elementary school and it was a garden mural but then everybody got to put their hand print on to make flowers and stuff like that, which is super kindergarten but you know, something like that. Just to integrate the students somehow.
Student 2: You could also reach out to alumni from Lafayette who are now professional artists; that might be kind of cool. Because then they’re Lafayette students but also then you know that they aren’t going to make it look bad.
Student 1: I feel like someone looking at the piece, I probably wouldn’t care that much who made it, probably more important that it looks good. Like if it’s ugly, I’ll just be like “oh that’s ugly.” Cool some kids made it but I kind of wish it wasn’t ugly.
Student 2: Yeah, I mean you could also ask current art majors if they’re interested.
Student 1: And they’re probably pretty good.
Olivia: Obviously you can’t speak for everyone but do you think there would be interest from the student body in putting in time to help work on this?
Student 3: I think you could find it, definitely within the art department and people who–well, like us who have a vested interest in this building and beautifying this building and the arts. Yeah, I do think you could find people.
Appendix B: Professor Ed Kerns (art) Interview Transcript
Conducted by Olivia Guarna on November 6, 2018
Olivia: [explaining the project] … to do an art installation on the exterior wall of Acopian that’s facing Markle.
Kerns: The whole class is doing this?
Olivia: No, we’re four people. And–it was actually Cohen’s idea–but I guess the issue we’re trying to get at is–we’ve talked a lot about the engineering culture here and everywhere but–
Kerns: What kind of engineer are you?
Olivia: Engineering studies. So that’s what this capstone is.
Kerns: So you’re the broadest engineer.
Olivia: Yes. So I guess we were talking about Acopian and how it’s not very inclusive or inviting, especially to non engineers.
Kerns: It is a very difficult building to feel comfortable in and they’ve tried to friendly it up with a lot of photographs. I think it’s in part the structure of it and when you walk in, you’re confronted with heroes of the past and with mostly–I haven’t been there recently to look at the art but I remember a lot of engineering male heads and then problematically, the photographs–if you’re deeply interested in the subject, would probably be broadly interesting but they’re not connected, they’re not about connecting other things. It’s engineering centric. And I understand that relative to the idea that they were trying to assuage things like ABET, which is the accrediting agency. Also, to find their ranking higher. And so you encourage engineering centric–just like art centric–things to push the public’s perception to a higher level of how serious and engaged you are.
The real issue here is, at Lafayette in terms of background, one of the strengths that you must’ve heard of when you were applying (others have heard of it) is we have engineering and liberal arts. Right? And that combination is a winning combination for jobs and success. Well, it is if it’s integrated. But as a marking point, you have to demonstrate that. So I don’t think the building is a visual symbol […] does a good job of representing connectivity.
And so, I think the idea of the integrated science center has shifted the paradigm a little bit because the paradigm has been shifted by people like Cohen and like Veshosky and others who are broader in their view of engineering. It’s no dark secret that some engineers have a–whether it’s out of insecurity or whether they actually believe it–the idea that their way of designing and modeling is vastly superior and it’s not necessarily. It may be repeatable, but it is just one model of the human experience. And I think that rubs–chafes some people in other disciplines.
And also engineering is very well funded. And other programs don’t have a long history as engineering does, for which people came here to study engineering and science to extract stuff from the Pennsylvania ground. You can get anything from slate to coal to anthrocycle (?) in particular out of the ground, you need to produce engineers. So, it’s had a long history of internalizing its success. I think that’s a good way to put it. It doesn’t reach out as–but some individuals in there do. And they make inroads, like Professor Cohen and I noted Veshosky as well. And they reach out to other design based disciplines that have public voices like the arts.
So here’s where the paradigm I think has shifted. Rather than promoting that we have liberal arts and engineering, what we ought to be saying is something broader, which is we deal with the idea of educating and making models of experience in multiple ways. Through reductionist, scientific, and mathematical models, and perhaps through expansive models that don’t require repeatability but are models of experience […], like painting, poetry, writing, and so on. And when you do that, the model gets redefined with the result. It’s engineering plus liberal arts equals question mark or blah blah equals human capacity enhanced. So, I like that model a lot. And I think where you see disciplinary walls bending or falling, bio, chemistry, chemical engineering finding its way into the life sciences and design coming across sustainability issues, you need partnerships. Broad partnerships. So I think the college is trying to move that way, through no fault of the administration. I mean I think it’s the faculty that realized how important that is. And I know certainly in the arts some of my most interesting students have been out of engineering and they’re shocked that this other way of modeling is so appealing to them.
So I see it as what E.O. Wilson, who was a great naturalist and taught at Harvard for years, called Consilience, where there is–in all of the seeking of modeling in different ways–the goal is intellectual unity. You know, there is an overall intellectual unity to problems. You can be the most brilliant engineer in the world and have no empathy, have no poetry, and design something that solves a problem but is inelegant as a response to the environment, for example. And vice versa. So it’s important, especially on the undergraduate level. And I would also say, the real question for me and for some engineers–because I know a lot of people at MIT because I’ve worked up there in the visual arts lab–for them too and how they treat undergraduate engineering education. Many schools are not so wedded to ABET accreditation because they think on the undergraduate level–
[Brief interruption]
Kerns: I’m exhausted.
Olivia: Okay, well I wanted to pick your brain a little bit about–so after talking to some engineers I think we decided that a mural might be the best approach because a lot of them expressed interest in introducing color into the building.
Kerns: Where is this? I mean it’s on the outside wall?
Olivia: Yes, let me show you a picture. It’s the outside wall facing Markle Hall. This is the building.
Kerns: Yeah, so this is the wall that faces Markle?
Olivia: Right, so we wanted to do a mural and one idea that one of our group members–
Kerns: So it’s a brick surface that you’d cover; you would install some panels and paint.
Olivia: Exactly. One idea was to make a mural that looks like a cutaway of the building so that you’re looking into classrooms but it wouldn’t be traditional engineering classes. It would be a variety of–
Kerns: Stuff going on.
Olivia: Right. And it’s ranging from very engineering things to kind of ridiculous things. So I have a couple questions for you. First of all, I want to talk a little bit about the feasibility of doing this.
Kerns: What’s the space between the windows? Did you measure that?
Olivia: We haven’t and we’re working on that but yeah, that’s definitely a concern. Do you think a mural is a mistake there because the space is so interrupted by windows?
Kerns: Well it’s going to be choppy images. You know, chopped up images. But there’s no reason that it couldn’t work. It could also be abstracted in some sort of sequential occurrence because you have measured spaces. There’s nothing to say something couldn’t morph into something else in six panels or how many windows you have. And that’s visually fine because you can follow it back. You know the evolutionary curve or something. That’s one possibility that always works. When you have an architectural program that’s regular like that.
It’s kind of hard to do a traditional image within that context because it’s so broken. To me it would be not either or. Well let me put it this way. What you want is visual coherence. You don’t want it to be something stupid. And so, my other question is, does the work of art there have to be panels with paint? Could it be something made with light? Could you do and get funded a beautiful neon piece that could weave its way through the window pattern? And would be stunning and different. I don’t think–I mean the traditional means of a panel addresses one thing but it’s not going to stand out. I mean even though you walk towards that space and you see it coming up, it’s so regular; it’s going to be hard to put a coherent image there. But, do you know the work of Stephen Antonakos? I’ll show you the spelling.
Olivia: Yeah we were actually originally–before we thought about murals–we were thinking about light, especially since engineers are always working all through the night. We thought that would be a really cool thing to have.
Kerns: Well I’m just thinking the power of the metaphor is so complete. You know, you shed light on a problem, in darkness you move towards the light. I just like the idea of the metaphor. And the metaphor of light is much more informative because it’s inclusive. You don’t shine a half a light.
Stephen Antonakos is this artist and–let’s see, that’s him. He’s a friend of mine. And he did things like this sort of image, where there’d be a panel and backlit. How killer you would have something. And here’s what I suggest: he was a visiting artist here in the mid 2000s and he’s also done many many pieces around the country. In fact, internationally. If you go to Tel Aviv Airport there’s a big one on the building. He’s done all sorts of things. So, yes it would kind of be a knock off but I think you could proceed and these are just stunning and they’re spiritual and they’re connected. But what he works with is geometry. Now here’s a thought: those twelve paintings sitting right there of mine were bought by the Integrated Science Center to hang.
Olivia: Yeah, I saw that.
Kerns: Okay, that’s pretty cool. So there they are–here take look. Some of these images, or this idea of the octopus mind and the cell mind–it’s pretty abstract. But I’m working on some paintings now that would translate beautifully into light. Now suppose, if you really wanted to do a mural–come here for a second. Just guessing the spaces between the windows is maybe four and a half or five feet by whatever, here’s an idea. Imagine making panels with imagery, you know something like that. You know, more defined, okay? And light emanating out of it with little holes in it? You know, light coming out in different colors? Lights all around the edges. And if you wanted to, we could–how many are you?
Olivia: Four.
Kerns: And they’re all seniors?
Olivia: Mm hm.
Kerns: And when do you have to have this design? By the end of the year?
Olivia: By the end of the semester.
Kerns: Oh, okay.
Olivia: Yeah, quick.
Kerns: It’s quick. And who’s going to help you do it–execute it?
Olivia: Um–
Kerns: Well you have a lab up there right? You have a place you could build the panels and install them?
Olivia: We’re actually–
Kerns: Or is it just a proposal?
Olivia: It’s just a proposal.
Kerns: I think it’s a beautiful idea. If you wanted to, we can come in here with the four of you someday and we could talk about and I could lead you through the process of taking some of these biological imagery and imagine a painting like this, with the little parts that are connected. Here, this is about emergent theory but imagine that lit as–light coming through holes. Blue light, yellow light, pink light, green light. It could be stunning. So, here take a few images. I really think you could do a proposal and some drawings and the mechanics and light you guys could do in an instant.
Olivia: Yeah.
Kerns: And propose it and look for some money and do it in the spring and […] as your legacy.
Olivia: That would be great.
Kerns: Why think so fricking small? With paintings […]
Olivia: No, you’re right. Especially since–
Kerns: I mean these are complicated images right now because they’re paintings. But that could be simplified into a beautiful structure. It doesn’t have to be this. It could be other things. It could be engineering principles: metal bending and all sorts of things. But I just see these with pores of light and light emanating. It’d be very cool. And the panel work would be outdoor material, which you could identify as engineers that would stand up. You build the panels, install the lights, you run some electrical wires and you turn it on and off on a timer. It’d be killer.
Olivia: Yeah, and I think engineers would latch onto the technical aspect.
Kerns: Of course they would. They would love that. Because the metaphor would be in attunement with the idea that knowledge lights the way. Knowledge defines human capacity. It’d be fantastic. The other idea I had when you said it, is imagine no rectangles and imagine shapes hanging on the wall like that. Install them. You know, metallic shapes manufactured and installed with lights in them. That’d be really cool.
Olivia: Yeah. Do you mind if I take a picture?
Kerns: No. But if you use any of it, I want in on the design because it’s my idea.
Olivia: Absolutely.
Kerns: But I’m just saying, you could make a killer thing here if Ben [?] would pursue it.
Olivia: Okay.
Kerns: Alright? You want to take that?
Olivia: Okay.
Kerns: And you can just roll it up. It’s just stupid shapes and you know–and there are other ideas in play but these are more painterly ideas but… The other thing you could do is something called backlight film. This is a sort of film you see in a bus kiosk. And so you put backlight in it and the image could just be there. But I love this idea of projecting out from a panel board. Maybe you even use some sort of word imagery. I don’t know but maybe there’s some sort of common word like consilience that is spelled. You know, like join the ideas.
Olivia: Okay, thank you. Those are great ideas. So I’m going to show this to my group and then we’ll–
Kerns: And the other thing too, if you look at these things in a room, these are pretty intense. Imagine on the side of that building, oh my god it’s perfect.
Olivia: Yeah.
Kerns: You have irregularity, you can have the images scale change. All sorts of things. And here’s a building he did and it just has the shape on it. Some of these things are–look, Port Authority in New York. Pretty interesting. So, you would not be copying because you’d be using a panel with biological or engineering imagery/structure. So you have a hell of a lot to report back.
Olivia: Definitely.
Kerns: That’s delicious. Smart work.
Olivia: Yeah, it is.
Kerns: And you know what would happen? If Cohen got excited about that and you said we’re going to do the plans and maybe there’s a group next spring that can execute this, you have engineering labs so you can build it in house. If you can build a racecar you can build that. Rectangular panel with lighting on timing.
Olivia: For sure.
Kerns: It’s just the front image and I can help you with that. It’d be pretty awesome. And the other thing is, it enjoys the kind of connectivity of image to the Integrated Science Center where those paintings are going to be. They’re in that book.
Olivia: Can I take this with me also?
Kerns: Sure.
Olivia: Okay, that’s awesome. So, like I said, I’m gonna take all this back to the group and we can find a time to come–
Kerns: Yeah, I don’t want to hear from you unless you want to do it. Because I’m so–I mean I am kind of grumpy this morning. Sorry about that.
Olivia: No, that’s okay.
Kerns: But I’ve got a lot on my plate and I–at this point in my career–I’m only interested in what’s going to be done. Chitchat is very easy around here, as you well know.
Olivia: No, I get that.
Kerns: Yeah, I know you do.
Olivia: We don’t want to waste your time.
Kerns: And engineering is very unwasteful. And I know if you guys find this interesting, the next thing we talk about is imagery and develop some images and then measurements and scale and the shapes don’t have to be rectangles they could be biological or they can come out of ideas in engineering. You know, all sorts of images. There’s probably enough imagery out there to generate the whole thing but you want it to be connected to this sort of art side thing that’s going to happen. And talk about attracting people. Talk about softening the shell of that building. Wow, very powerful.
Olivia: Yeah, we think so. I mean it’s in desperate need of something.
Kerns: It needs something and so I don’t think you go a little bit, like paint some horses or something. Screw that. Let’s do something really big. And then you go to the Pres. or the dean or what’s his name, Scott Hummel, who’s an old friend of mine, and say, we want to do this. It’ll cost us $26,000 and we’ll build most of it in-house. You don’t have to pull a number out of the air–think about panels and stuff and you’ll just need plan ops help to install. And you’ve got a brick surface there. So you’re just drilling in the anchors. And it’s not going to be heavy. At best it’s a piece of bent neon behind it or maybe it’s some other lights. And maybe the panel itself has a sort of door function to it to open it up and replace lights. You know, that’s a design problem. How do you maintain it? But, wow, what a great idea.
Olivia: Yeah, that’s awesome. Thank you, you’ve been so helpful so I really appreciate your time.
Appendix C: Student 4 Interview
Conducted by Roberto Quinteros
Student 4 is a junior Psychology and Gov/Law double major and is also a student tour guide for the Lafayette admissions office.
Roberto: What is your impression of Lafayette’s engineering culture and what would you like to see change if there are necessary changes?
Student 4: I think the engineering culture at Lafayette is relatively interdisciplinary, which is what I say on my tours. I never thought I would step foot in Acopian, yet I was able to take some classes from an engineering professor as part of my First Year Seminar, which was interesting considering an FYS is considered a writing class. Having that experience made me realize that being an engineer is far more than just building stuff in a lab, and since my experience freshman year, I have learned to appreciate just how versatile the discipline can be. However, I don’t think that is advertised enough, and I think the school should work much harder to promote engineering studies classes, and other business-related engineering courses, to students outside of the department because I think they offer valuable academic and life skills that go unnoticed at this school.
Roberto: What do you look for in a learning/study space?
Student 4: My biggest thing in a study and learning space is LOTS of natural light. By now, I have found my ideal study spots on this campus, such as the third floor of New Oeschle and the top floor of the gym–both of which have a great amount of natural light shining in all day. I hate working in rooms with no windows because I need to have a sense of time and not feel like I’m trapped in a small basement (hence why I don’t like to study in Acopian).
Roberto: What makes some buildings on campus feel more inviting than others?
Student 4: The amount of open space and natural light is what draws me to some building over others on this campus. For example, I like New Oeschle far more than Pardee because Pardee lacks big tables (seriously, the desks in Pardee are designed for 6 year olds). Pardee also has far less light coming in through the windows, and is either too hot or too cold. Overall, I think if the school is looking to keep the old buildings on this campus, which they should, an effort needs to be made to make the old buildings more user friendly so student’s don’t feel like they are trapped in a different decade.
Roberto: If Acopian felt more inclusive, would you be interested in using it as a study space?
Student 4: If Acopian was advertised as a less intimidating and more welcoming environment to students of all majors, I would definitely study there. Right now, Acopian just reminds me of late nights and headaches based on what I’ve heard from my engineering friends, so it’s one of the last places I would consider studying. However, if there were ways to create larger, more open, and more inviting study spaces in Acopian, I would definitely use the building more…after all, it is the only building open 24 hours.
Appendix D: Engineering Student Panel
Conducted by Nia Holland
Nia: What is your impression of Lafayette’s engineering culture and what would you like to see change?
Student 6: The engineering culture at Lafayette seems to be one where engineers take pride in their engineering degree and in the prestige of our engineering program. Another, less healthy, aspect of the culture is that all the engineers seem to be trying to act like they have the hardest life. Everybody is comparing their workload, exam difficulty, and how many hours a week they spend in Acopian to try to make it seem like they have to work the hardest in their major.
Nia: What do you look for in a learning/study space?
Student 6: I enjoy having comfortable seating and lots of windows in a study space. I also like a good mix of places conducive to working alone and spaces that are good for group work.
Nia: What makes some buildings on campus feel more inviting than others?
Student 6: The buildings on campus that seem most inviting to me have lots of windows/ natural lighting and many open spaces.
Nia: How much time do you spend in Acopian?
Student 6: All my classes are there and I primarily study there, so probably around 25 hours a week
Nia: What is your biggest complaint about the space?
Student 6: Most of the spaces are very closed off or only have windows that are awkwardly out to the hallway instead of outside. There are limited study space options and not nearly enough space for some majors (ex. Mech E lounge way too small for # of students in major). If professors reserve labs for class it can be hard to find an open computer even. I sometimes use the Computer Science (5th floor) labs and rooms just because they are the only rooms with good natural lighting/ a decent view.
Nia: Would a more inclusive and inviting Acopian appeal to you/improve your experience of working and studying there?
Student 6: Honestly, being more inclusive to other majors does not strike me as a benefit because the space is already quite limited just with engineers using it. There would need to be space added if the goal was to make it inclusive for all majors. If it got more crowded without adding space I’d probably start studying elsewhere. Being more inviting would greatly improve my studying/ working experience though. If that improved, my 25 hrs a week there might feel less prison-like.
Nia: Do you have any big ideas for an installation piece on the exterior of Acopian?
Student 6: Not particularly, something that makes the place feel less dull but also isn’t so different that it takes away from the architectural consistency that the college has going right now. Also ideally something that ties into engineering/ acknowledges the majors using the building.
Nia: Would you be interested in an art project that can be incorporated into the interior as well?
Student 6: Anything that can improve the interior would be greatly appreciated.
Nia: What is your impression of Lafayette’s engineering culture and what would you like to see change?
Student 7: Overall, the engineering program has a very good reputation. However, sometimes it feels as though the students are overworked.
Nia: What do you look for in a learning/study space?
Student 7: I like a study space that is quite, open, and has a lot of light, preferably natural lighting.
Nia: What makes some buildings on campus feel more inviting than others?
Student 7: The outer appearance as well as the atmosphere inside of the building makes some buildings more inviting than others.
Nia: What ideas or elements might you like to see incorporated in an Acopian art project?
Student 7: This isn’t a specific idea, but something bright to add color to Acopian. It might include different aspects from each discipline of engineering.
Nia: How much time do you spend in Acopian?
Student 7: Right now, I only spend about 4 hours a week in Acopian simply because of my class.
Nia: What is your biggest complain about the space?
Student 7: Acopian is very dark.
Nia: Would a more inclusive and inviting Acopian appeal to you/improve your experience of working and studying there?
Student 7: A more inviting appeal would definitely improve my studying experience in Acopian.
Nia: Would you be interested in an art project that can be incorporated into the interior as well?
Student 7: I think adding an art project would lighten up the mood inside of Acopian instead of it simply being a place where people feel overwhelmed.
Nia: What is your impression of Lafayette’s engineering culture and what would you like to see change?
Student 8: I think the engineering culture is very supportive and unified, perhaps even to the extent of not including other majors. All the professors and department heads do the best they can to allow students to succeed while still holding really high standards.
Nia: What do you look for in a learning/study space?
Student 8: Good lighting (even natural light), not a ton of distraction, but somewhere comfortable with computer and printing resources.
Nia: What makes some buildings on campus feel more inviting than others?
Student 8: Natural lighting and tables for collaboration
Nia: What ideas or elements might you like to see incorporated in an Acopian art project?
Student 8: I think making the overall space more inviting and less “scientific” and miserable (for lack of a better word) would be good. Potentially more color and natural lighting and “homey” collaborative feel.
Nia: How much time do you spend in Acopian?
Student 8: Barely any except for actual classes in the building.
Nia: What is your biggest complaint about the space?
Student 8: It kind of feels like a dungeon, it’s dark and really bland.
Nia: Do you have any big ideas for an installation piece on the exterior of Acopian?
Student 8: I mean it is nice that engineers have their own space to do their work, but collaboration with people in other majors is important as well. Something colorful and aesthetically pleasing.
Nia: Would you be interested in an art project that can be incorporated into the interior as well?
Student 8: Yes.
Nia: What is your impression of Lafayette’s engineering culture and what would you like to see change?
Student 9: I like the engineering culture at Lafayette. I like that students do work together and lift one another up. We check in on each other. We understand each other’s struggles. I also like that there is frequently free pizza somewhere.
Nia: What do you look for in a learning/study space?
Student 9: In a learning space, I like a warm feeling. I like a clean room physically and in terms of thought, I like professors and peers with diversity of thought, open to solving problems in more than one way. Most importantly, I appreciate a learning space in which no one is condescending and everyone is willing to learn something from those around them. Professors and students alike can always learn something new.
Nia: What makes some buildings on campus feel more inviting than others?
Student 9: Some buildings are more inviting based on appearance and based on interactions. Appearance wise, I find buildings with comfy couches or big glass windows more inviting. In terms of people, I find buildings where students hold the door more inviting. I know that is very specific, but manners say a lot about a person, and people make up communities.
Nia: What ideas or elements might you like to see incorporated in an Acopian art project?
Student 9: I don’t know what this project is. If it is simply a project to incorporate art/artwork in Acopian, I would love to see more pictures of happy students, not just students doing research. I would love to see expressive art.
Nia: How much time do you spend in Acopian?
Student 9: 6-8 hours/week day; 4-9 hours some (most) weekend.
Nia: What is your biggest complain about the space?
Student 9: It is a little dreary. With all of the work and all of the time spent there, it would be nice to have the building a little more modern and have more windows (please, please, someone put more windows in Acopian that look outside. It is very sad studying with very little view of outside. In the ChemE fish bowl on the second floor, there is a window that looks over to a brick wall. Who thought of that? It is the saddest thing and I spend 2-4 hours each day in that room.) My biggest complaint is just the scenery.
Nia: Would a more inclusive and inviting Acopian appeal to you/improve your experience of working and studying there?
Student 9: A more inclusive environment in Acopian could definitely improve working and studying there. I don’t see my non-engineer friends most days. I almost exclusively work in Acopian because of some of the software, and because I need easy access to my professors. My non-engineering friends work in the library and Pardee which is just not feasible to me because I need access to those resources. Seeing other students in Acopian could help relieve the stress of only seeing the sometimes (most of the time) very exhausted engineers. Some new faces might be refreshing.
Nia: Do you have any big ideas for an installation piece on the exterior of Acopian?
Student 9: I was unaware that anything was being installed.
Nia: Would you be interested in an art project that can be incorporated into the interior as well?
Student 9: Yes.
Nia: What do you look for in a learning/study space?
Student 10: I like big tables with a lot of table space. It would be nice to have comfortable chairs too.
Nia: What ideas or elements might you like to see incorporated in an Acopian art project?
Student 10: There could be more student projects on display.
Nia: How much time do you spend in Acopian?
Student 10: I spend about 10 hours a week in Acopian.
Nia: What is your biggest complaint about the space?
Student 10: My biggest complaint is that sometimes when people are working on group projects they get loud. There should be a place to reserve rooms to work in like the library. There should also be a quiet room for people who want to get work done by themselves.
Nia: What is your impression of Lafayette’s engineering culture and what would you like to see change?
Student 11: Engineering culture at Laf is fine. I would like to see more classes with other majors or a requirement to take more classes outside engineering. But I know it’s impossible cause it’s already impossible.
Nia: What do you look for in a learning/study space?
Student 11: Quiet. Accessible. Spacious
Nia: What makes some buildings on campus feel more inviting than others?
Student 11: Accessibility, areas to sleep, space to spread out.
Nia: What ideas or elements might you like to see incorporated in an Acopian art project?
Student 11: Some form of interaction and light.
Nia: How much time do you spend in Acopian?
Student 11: Too much.
Nia: What is your biggest complain about the space?
Student 11: I like it. Wish there was food here.
Nia: Would a more inclusive and inviting Acopian appeal to you/improve your experience of working and studying there?
Student 11: I already enjoy working there.
Nia: Do you have any specific design ideas for an installation piece on the exterior of Acopian?
Student 11: Nope.
Nia: Would you be interested in an art project that can be incorporated into the interior as well?
Student 11: Sure, why not? I could look at it at three am when I’m delirious from sleep deprivation and in need of motivation from beauty.
Appendix E: Psychology Student Panel
Conducted by Nia Holland
Nia: What is your impression of Lafayette’s engineering culture and what would you like to see change?
Student 12: I assume it is very prestigious and also competitive amongst the engineers. I don’t know anything to say I want to change it.
Nia: What do you look for in a learning/study space?
Student 12: Secluded, quiet, few number of people, as less distractions as possible.
Nia: What makes some buildings on campus feel more inviting than others?
Student 12: Openness, bright, new. also having areas to sit to either study or just hangout.
Nia: What is your impression of Lafayette’s engineering culture and what would you like to see change?
Student 13: I think that there is a school attitude that favorites engineers and the engineering program
Nia: What do you look for in a learning/study space?
Student 13: Comfortability- so that i can envision myself spending long periods of time there.
Nia: What makes some buildings on campus feel more inviting than others?
Student 13: I like the glass windows/ doorways and visibility in you get from newer buildings such as new Oechsle and Skillman
Nia: If Acopian felt more inclusive, would you be interested in using it as a study space?
Student 13: Yes, especially at times when the library closes.
Appendix F: Professor Toia (art) Interview Transcript
Conducted by Olivia Guarna on November 8, 2018
Olivia: Okay, so, I wanted to talk about our capstone project, which I think you’ve talked to one of the groups already for another one. But our project is making a proposal or design for an art installation on the exterior wall of Acopian that faces Markle. And I can show you a picture of that, but it’s just a brick wall that has a lot of windows. Um, so I wanted to get your thoughts on a few things. One, we had a design idea, which is kind of falling apart right now, but I talked to Professor Kerns yesterday and he gave us another idea so I think now what our plan for the project is, is to flesh out three or four different design ideas and why they work or don’t. So, I can talk through the ones that we have so far and also if you have something totally new that you can think of that’d be great but certainly no pressure to do that. But also I just wanted to ask you some questions about the feasibility of doing anything and also I know you have a lot of community connections to Easton, so I wanted to talk a little about that also. But anyway, so like I said we’re working on an art installation for Acopian and the idea is to bridge—we’re looking at the engineering culture at Lafayette and the ways it could be more inclusive and interdisciplinary and how that building—a lot of people feel is not at all inclusive.
Toia: Yeah.
Olivia: So we think art would be a great way to connect different communities. I don’t know if you have any thoughts on that or how much you know about the engineering department here.
Toia: Well I’ve worked with a lot of the engineers so I know, you know, a general idea. And I’ve done some classes that kind of worked with students so, I have a pretty good idea of what goes on there and how things are run. Let me see an image of the space, because I think that’s important.
Olivia: Uh huh. Yeah so actually I just met with Professor Veshosky and he was telling me about some trip you did in New Orleans.
Toia: Oh New Orleans, that was crazy. Really interesting. Talk about culture shock and watching people trying to make things work.
Olivia: So, that’s the space. And we’ve been toying with ideas that might be able to be incorporated into the interior also but I don’t know if that’s going to be possible for this project right now.
Toia: Do you have any specific locations in this space that you’re thinking of or are you thinking about you know, from top to bottom, or roof or any—
Olivia: Um, I don’t know. So our original idea was, after talking to some engineers, they were saying that they really want something colorful on that wall. So we were thinking about murals and then one idea that we came up with was doing an image of a cutaway of the building so that you can see into the interior and having different classrooms but it would be really unconventional activities going on in there. But with the windows, we’re thinking that the space is too interrupted to do something like that. So I don’t know how a mural would work or it would probably end up if we wanted to go down that road, it would have to be a more abstract image—
Toia: Right.
Olivia: That could work with, you know, um—
Toia: So, tell me a little bit about some of your ideas.
Olivia: So that was one. And then when we talked to a few engineers—
Toia: I’m sorry, let me back up. The mural’s a pretty obvious one. The question really is, are there any other ideas.
Olivia: Right, so we talked to some engineers. They said they wanted to see moving parts would be cool.
Toia: Typical engineers.
Olivia: Yeah. And then they were like “gears” and I was like okay, also typical engineers.
Toia: Oh god.
Olivia: And then they were like, paint gears and then paint the names of the different departments on them. So I was like, okay there’s an idea. At the very beginning we were thinking about doing something with light because one of the problems with that building is that engineers stay there all night and it seems like the work culture is kind of miserable there.
Toia: Yeah.
Olivia: So, some kind of light installation would appeal to the people who are working there at night. And then yesterday when I was talking to Kerns, he was talking about doing panels that are irregularly shaped or rectangular panels with some kind of imagery that’s probably abstract—he was actually showing us some of the things he’s working on—but that connect to biological or engineering themes and then have them backlit with colored light, neon light, either coming with holes in the panels coming through or just like emanating from around the edges, which I thought was pretty cool. Um, I don’t know. We really just want something that will stand out from a distance. The wall—obviously it’s not the front facade but it has a lot of visibility from the surrounding areas so we definitely want color, we’re thinking about light.
Toia: So, but no one really travels between Markle and there. There’s no—it’s like a dead man’s land.
Olivia: It’s really just the approach coming—if you’re walking on high street in the direction of Acopian. Or if you’re coming from the library you can see that wall. But you’re right. Unless you’re going to the parking lot.
Toia: Right. That’s right cause it’s just a driveway that’s in between the two. It’s just a drive that goes down behind Markle right?
Olivia: Mm hm. So are you also feeling like the mural is kind of a boring idea?
Toia: Uh, yeah. Especially on brick. It’s just such an easy—
Olivia: I know; it’s so obvious.
Toia: It’s a bit obvious. I would think that a changing light installation that just breaks up onto the space, that’s the kind of interesting—the nice thing about that is number one, when you talk about light and, you know, at night, to activate that space with light would be really nice. You can do LED lighting and I think the nice thing about light is that there are so many facets of it that address multi-departmental issues. You can talk to psychology and sociology about what colors influence mood change and heightened awareness and make people happy. Especially in the winter when it’s so dark. You can talk about fluctuating patterns that enhance one’s awareness. And you can—I think the most important thing is—the way that engineering students typically work (I’m sure Kerns talked about this) is that they are task and goal oriented and most engineering students at this stage in their life have fairly limited creative ideas, right? So you want to talk to everybody else in the college about what ideas they have and what they would like to see and then let the engineering department serve those ideas. Saying, okay this is what we want to do. We want to do these lightings or we want to do this moving thing and here’s what you guys need to do. You need to design how this moves and write some software that allows this to happen to this. But don’t give them the creative side; give them the problem solving side to fix. Cause that’s going to give them a sense of collaboration and an expanded experience. It’s going to open up their minds and eyes to collaborating with people beyond the engineering concerns. They don’t necessarily have the vision yet, you know? And they need it. They need to understand that they are designing things for people other than themselves.
Olivia: Um, yeah. I agree. Also I think the light—that technical aspect is something that they can latch on to.
Toia: Oh yeah, no once you give it to them they’ll be like, oh that’s cool! You know, and then you give them the parameters of what those things might be. And the thing about light that’s so wonderful is um, number one no one complains about illuminating surfaces, you know. Number two there’s a huge amount of flexibility, especially now with LEDs and Arduino. You can really easily and fairly cheaply do a hell of a lot. And then there’s also projected light. LEDs do one thing. You know, they can change but they don’t project light well. But there might be an option to do something that projects light as well. And those are the kinds of things you can talk to more than one person about. You know, get some ideas from a number of different departments. But I would. I’d talk to psych; I’d talk to sociology. And then once they can kind of use statistical data and empirical data that says these things make you happier or these things enhance creativity, you know, then you can take all of that empirical knowledge and fit it into some type of structure that benefits everybody. And maybe it’s both outside and inside.
Olivia: Yeah I think there are cool ways that that could be used in the interior also.
Toia: Even just like a meditation room. You know? Like if there was just a place where you could go that light just flooded the space and slowly changed, just a little room that had some pillows in it and you could just go and zone out for fifteen minutes—
Olivia: Yeah for sure.
Toia: Especially in the middle of the night when you need that, you know?
Olivia: Yeah, the interior of that building is honestly so horrible.
Toia: It’s this crazy maze.
Olivia: Yeah, and it feels so institutional and all the furniture is like a hundred years old, which is fine but… One other idea that I was thinking about is incorporating plants or other organic materials.
Toia: Yeah.
Olivia: Which honestly might work kind of well with some light thing.
Toia: Yeah. Maybe that meditation room is like a growing plant room.
Olivia: Yeah.
Toia: Yeah, that’s a great idea.
Olivia: My original idea was actually, my high school after I left, but has in the library put in—I don’t know what they call it—
Toia: Vertical garden?
Olivia: Yes, exactly.
Toia: Yeah. I mean that could actually work on the outside too.
Olivia: Really?
Toia: Well, I mean, that’s kind of tough because that’s a northeast-facing wall so you don’t get the kind of sun you really want on it. But you can—if it’s simple plants that don’t need direct lighting. Even if it’s just—you’ve got all those windows, right? So what if they were just some simple vertical columns coming out.
Olivia: Do you have any idea how expensive that is?
Toia: What, vertical gardens?
Olivia: Yeah. Not like a number but very expensive or very inexpensive?
Toia: Depends what you’re trying to do, it really does. I think the irrigation becomes the biggest expense. So you pump the water up and bring it down; it’s tougher.
Olivia: Yeah, but I love that idea for an interior space also. Like, it’s so little. It doesn’t even have to be big but it does a lot to change the space.
Toia: I mean the other way you could do it is to plant some vines and train them to go up.
Olivia: Okay, the other thing that I wanted to talk to you about was who is going to be completing these projects if they ever get off the ground? We were talking about having students involved but also that students don’t necessarily have time to make high quality work when it’s not for one of their classes. So we were thinking about the ideas of having to hire artists. Do you think, well, I don’t know exactly what I’m asking. Do you think artists in the Easton community would have any interest in what’s going on on our campus?
Toia: Not really.
Olivia: Yeah, that’s what I figured.
Toia: I mean, if there’s money in it for them. If it’s like a job, then yeah. And you could definitely—but like anybody, if you’re going to commission somebody to do it, you kind of relinquish the control. So what are the students doing then? You know? I mean there are certainly people out there who you can probably engage with who are local. And then there’s more professional artists who do just that kind of thing. Like if you’re talking about a vertical garden or if you’re talking about a light installation. You know, there are certainly some big name artists out there or some ones that are younger and are just getting going that you could hire to help you. None of those are going to be cheap.
Olivia: Do you think if we tried to do the project mostly in house it would come out looking crappy? Or do we have the capacity to make some kind of light installation.
Toia: I think a light installation is easier in that, no matter what, you’re going to need to hire someone to construct it. Maybe you can get students to write the software and the students can design what happens there, but you’re going to need some professionals to install, get the right materials, do all the hardware hookup. But that’s also the kind of thing that, if someone writes the software, it exists forever, and you hire the people to install once you’ve got the money to do it. You know, so the students’ work would be designing it and writing whatever software is necessary for whatever kind of programming you want. And then that exists, right? And then writing a proposal for the college to say, we need $40,000 to do this project. Maybe it takes two years to get the college to come around and find that money. But then you just hire the person to do it.
Olivia: Yeah, okay.
Toia: I mean, your guys job—and I think also if you’re—what class is this?
Olivia: Engineering studies capstone.
Toia: With who?
Olivia: Cohen.
Toia: Right so Ben, I mean Ben’s great. Ben’s like, he’s there. He’s going to be around. He’s got great ra ra cheer power, you know. He’s really good with you guys. And he’ll see a project through. So if it’s, you know, if he knows that there’s going to be another engineering capstone that he’s going to do a year down the road, you guys doing the final designing or maybe, you know, get it as far as you can and then pass it to the next class so that, yes you’re right, you need a professor to keep it going. And a year long project’s a lot more realistic than a semester long project.
Olivia: Yeah, it’s kind of hard to accomplish a lot in the amount of time that we have.
Toia: It is, but if you have a professor who can keep it moving, then he can help shepherd it in the right direction.
Olivia: And, um, do you know anything about or can you speculate about the interest that the college might actually have in funding a project like this?
Toia: I don’t think that’s outside the realm of possibilities. Especially if it’s—if you’re showing that it’s really like, a whole bunch of disciplines—really interdisciplinary, you can tap on all these different resources that are giving you input and being part of the process, it’s really—
Olivia: Yeah, that’s true. I guess, yeah. Because one of their biggest selling points for engineering is that we’re in a liberal arts school and we’re interdisciplinary so I guess it could actually show that.
Toia: Yeah, absolutely.
Olivia: Okay.
Toia: I love the idea of the plants growing too. I think that there’s a lot of opportunity for that being kind of multi-dimensional. You could have both an exterior one and an interior one. It’s kind of interesting to have both. They share the common bond.
Olivia: Yeah, a little continuity.
Toia: But you’re exposing it to the outdoors and the indoors. If you go outside of the engineering—like, how many people outside of engineering would walk into Acopian? Other students need to be going there too. So it’s really nice to kind of bring some of engineering outside of it but it’s also really nice to serve the students inside too.
Olivia: Yeah, I think the challenge I’m seeing right now is just getting people to break away from the idea that it has to be like an image. Like that’s the only path for the installation, but—
Toia: Do you know Villareal? He’s an artist; write his name down. Villareal. He does these super intense light installations. Like he did one across the Bay Bridge in San Fransisco and he used traffic patterns and motion sensors to count and dictate whatever the patterns were happening on the vertical LEDs that were happening on the bridge.
Olivia: Wow, that’s so cool.
Toia: I mean, across the entire span. It was about a 16 million dollar project or something like that. But it was–but I mean the Bay Bridge is huge. Leo Villareal, look up light installation on Bay Bridge and you’ll find it. But if you can show examples like that to someone, that’ll get everyone really excited. You know, like we can do something like that? Absolutely. So that kind of investigation will help you and just kind of handing that off to someone. That could be really dynamic.
Olivia: Okay, thank you so much for your help.